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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:48 am 

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 5:18 am
Posts: 287
I don't take Kamalla for granted, either. She's taking on a lot against a lot of powerful people. She has a right to do it her way.

Old Broom, you are free and welcome to post new threads and topics all day, every day if you so choose. You can also choose to read or not read what other people post. Personally, I wish you would post new content!

This forum is quiet because Kamalla isn't doing full-time, unpaid volunteer work to host it and no one else has picked up the slack. It's still a helluva great archive of work. If we want this forum to be current and busy, it's up to all of us to make it so.

But back to the original topic: Weinstein and Bhajan.

Yogi Bhajan was a sexual predator like Harvey Weinstein. He protected other sexual predators in the organization like MSS Ram Das Singh and Narayan Singh in Phoenix. Many of YB's secretaries enabled Yogi Bhajan in his crimes. But they were also sexual victims themselves. If more of them were to come out and tell their stories the way Premka did, would they be forgiven? Would we embrace them as battered sisters, or hate on them as enablers to a crime syndicate that hurt a LOT of people?

Personally, I'm conflicted. What do others think?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:54 pm
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How well could this be applied to at least the Khalsa Council members from back in the day. Unbelievably appropriate to 3HO.

Excerpts from former Miramax screenwriter Scott Rosenberg's Facebook post, whose mentor was Weinstein throughout the 1990's and early 2000's:

So, yeah, I was there.
And let me tell you one thing.
Let’s be perfectly clear about one thing:
Everybody-fucking-knew.
Not that he was raping.
No, that we never heard.

But we were aware of a certain pattern of overly-aggressive behavior that was rather dreadful.



We knew about the man’s hunger; his fervor; his appetite.
There was nothing secret about this voracious rapacity; like a gluttonous ogre out of the Brothers Grimm.
All couched in vague promises of potential movie roles.
(and, it should be noted: there were many who actually succumbed to his bulky charms. Willingly. Which surely must have only impelled him to cast his fetid net even wider).
But like I said: everybody-fu*king-knew.



And to me, if Harvey’s behavior is the most reprehensible thing one can imagine, a not-so-distant second is the current flood of sanctimonious denial and condemnation that now crashes upon these shores of rectitude in gloppy tides of bullshit righteousness.
Because everybody-fu*king-knew.
And do you know how I am sure this is true?
Because I was there.
And I saw you.
And I talked about it with you.
You, the big producers; you, the big directors; you, the big agents; you, the big financiers.
And you, the big rival studio chiefs; you, the big actors; you, the big actresses; you, the big models.
You, the big journalists; you, the big screenwriters; you, the big rock stars; you, the big restaurateurs; you, the big politicians.
I saw you.
All of you.

And more:

So, yeah, I am sorry.
Sorry and ashamed.
Because, in the end, I was complicit.
I didn’t say shit.
I didn’t do shit.



Harvey was nothing but wonderful to me.
So I reaped the rewards and I kept my mouth shut.
And for that, once again, I am sorry.
But you should be sorry, too.
With all these victims speaking up…
To tell their tales.
Shouldn’t those who witnessed it from the sidelines do the same?
Instead of retreating to the cowardly, canopied confines of faux-outrage?
Doesn’t being a bystander bring with it the responsibility of telling the truth, however personally disgraceful it may be?



You know who are.
You know that you knew.
And do you know how I know that you knew?
Because I was there with you.
And because everybody-fu*king-knew.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:56 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:11 pm
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Attachment:
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Dear Elandra Kirsten Meredith, you posted this quote, and I had hot morning beverage in my mouth and you didn't warn me. What? Huh? Reality check. Men's circles? Men's groups? Hehehehe. Good one.

Violet Faith says, " What actually touches me most personally is when men actively engage with other men to take a stand for women and to educate other men. It's glorious when a man can arrive and be present and loving and honor the feminine fully. We need more men like that and I feel the best way for that to happen is the men standing up inside your men's groups and circles".

"Men's groups and circles?" You DO live in an exoitc New Age universe. Here in Bellingham WA, Pacific Northwest USA our "men's groups" are pubs and sports and having "the guys over to play music, watch TV, grill some meat, work on the boat, tie flies, or whatever..."

Elandra, men aren't going to ride in on their white steeds and save women anymore today than yesterday. Most men around us haven't done their emotional work. When they read on FB their wife, sister, Mom, their daughters and nieces, all posting "ME TOO", they dunna know what to do. They freak out, while madly pretending to appear cool and poised and competent. THEY can't handle it, in other words.

SOoooo our nice men friends turn to us to assure them, to make them feel better. And, yes, THAT IS SO ANNOYING!

Women imagine it should be easy for men friends to just say, "Wow, it must be so intense for you, Elandra and Kamalla, to be coming OUT in public on FB about sexual (and cult) abuse. How are you doing? You OK? Need a hug? I am proud of you. Wow!"

When instead a guy friend shows up "to play music" and says, "I am not like that, I didn't do it." We can quickly end up with my husband yelling at the poor, nice friend (and ME TOO!). Does that help?

Again, said male friend, really really IS way way way way better than the men who have attacked me down through my life. No fooling! No kidding. I love him and value him. I am good friends with his wife.

My poor I'm-not-a-rapist male friend doesn't "intend" to make it all-about-himself and how he feels attacked. He is rocked and quaking, whether he admits it yet or not. Thus he can appear to "forget" that right now it is about women coming OUT. And coming OUT is harder than saying, "It wasn't/isn't me."

Obvious stuff.

My husband (or I) attempt to be kind, but of course he feels attacked because he is being "confronted" - especially by my husband. Poor dude WAS attacked/confronted last night because he couldn't put ME (and women) first. Oh well, this is just the FACTS right now.

Point is, stop expecting men to have done their emotional work. They haven't. Women can NOT look to men to successfully help us fight sexual abuse - men have always been terrible at that. Not because they are "bad" but because the whole idea that the "good" guys are going to save us from the "bad" guys is a false premise. They haven't and they won't.

Not saying women and our allies need to waste time right now making nice men FEEL BETTER about how the woman they know have all been violently sexually assaulted, and/or dominated and caged.

Not saying there are NO great hero feminist men either. I have several of them reaching out to me. We should honor them too. AFTER we honor ourselves, and support ourselves as women.

Just saying, generally speaking, don't expect men to be your heroes. They haven't done their emotional work enough to be able to put us first this week. They just haven't, and few admit it. They FEEL helpless and men traditionally don't admit to feeling helpless, and even if they do this week, don't expect them to be our heroes. They need to process and they haven't yet.

No problem, because YOU are your hero.

(All good nice men know what to do. If they wish to help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE5Dceud7Zs)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:59 am 

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 5:18 am
Posts: 287
Antion Vikram Singh wrote:
How well could this be applied to at least the Khalsa Council members from back in the day. Unbelievably appropriate to 3HO.

Excerpts from former Miramax screenwriter Scott Rosenberg's Facebook post, whose mentor was Weinstein throughout the 1990's and early 2000's:

So, yeah, I was there.
And let me tell you one thing.
Let’s be perfectly clear about one thing:
Everybody-fucking-knew.
Not that he was raping.
No, that we never heard.

But we were aware of a certain pattern of overly-aggressive behavior that was rather dreadful.

We knew about the man’s hunger; his fervor; his appetite.
There was nothing secret about this voracious rapacity; like a gluttonous ogre out of the Brothers Grimm.
All couched in vague promises of potential movie roles.
(and, it should be noted: there were many who actually succumbed to his bulky charms. Willingly. Which surely must have only impelled him to cast his fetid net even wider).
But like I said: everybody-fu*king-knew.

And to me, if Harvey’s behavior is the most reprehensible thing one can imagine, a not-so-distant second is the current flood of sanctimonious denial and condemnation that now crashes upon these shores of rectitude in gloppy tides of bullshit righteousness.
Because everybody-fu*king-knew.
And do you know how I am sure this is true?
Because I was there.
And I saw you.
And I talked about it with you.
You, the big producers; you, the big directors; you, the big agents; you, the big financiers.
And you, the big rival studio chiefs; you, the big actors; you, the big actresses; you, the big models.
You, the big journalists; you, the big screenwriters; you, the big rock stars; you, the big restaurateurs; you, the big politicians.
I saw you.
All of you.

And more:

So, yeah, I am sorry.
Sorry and ashamed.
Because, in the end, I was complicit.
I didn’t say shit.
I didn’t do shit.

Harvey was nothing but wonderful to me.
So I reaped the rewards and I kept my mouth shut.
And for that, once again, I am sorry.
But you should be sorry, too.
With all these victims speaking up…
To tell their tales.
Shouldn’t those who witnessed it from the sidelines do the same?
Instead of retreating to the cowardly, canopied confines of faux-outrage?
Doesn’t being a bystander bring with it the responsibility of telling the truth, however personally disgraceful it may be?

You know who are.
You know that you knew.
And do you know how I know that you knew?
Because I was there with you.
And because everybody-fu*king-knew.

Every single word of the above could be said about everyone in Sikh Dharma/3HO who KNEW that Yogi Bhajan was raping and sexually exploiting women, and didn't say or do anything to stop him or his pet pedophiles.

You people know who you are. It's time to join the real world. You joined 3HO because you wanted to become great teachers and lead the world to righteousness. Well, when it comes to morality, the world has passed you by. When you cover up for sex crimes, YOU become unrighteous. Stop telling yourselves that sex crimes are OK when they're committed by your "Spiritual Teacher." Rape is rape!

Stop covering for them. It makes you just as bad and just as low as the perverts you're protecting. Is your only compassion for yourselves? Don't you have any compassion at all for the many, many victims who are still suffering?

If you're worried about getting into trouble for having covered up or colluded with Bhajan's sex crimes, well, guess what? You might have to face embarrassment and legal liability. Frankly you deserve it. But isn't that better than dying with these crimes on your conscience?

If you still believe in "The Teachings," then you're going to come back in your next life as a cockroach. And if you don't still believe in "The Teachings," then why are you still trying to protect Yogi Bhajan's image? History will judge him, and it won't be pretty. Your Yogi Bhajan ship is sinking...

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I'd rather be hated for telling the truth, than loved for telling a lie.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:35 am 

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 5:18 am
Posts: 287
Remember how back in our hippie dippie years in 3HO we all wished for the Age of Aquarious to come so that Truth and Righteousness would prevail? You Bhajanists who are still "in," still clinging desperately to your illusions about Yogi Bhajan, still trying to sell his brand of BS, this may be the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. Where will you choose to stand?

The first ones to come out, tell the truth and (this is IMPORTANT) sincerely apologize for their actions, might find themselves on the right side of history. So far, the only people to do that who were in Bhajan's inner circle are Antion Vikram Singh* and Elandra. They are shining examples of how good, decent people should behave.

(*EDIT for CLARIFICATION: I don't wish for anyone to read my words and infer, incorrectly, that Antion Vikram Singh or Elandra ever sexually abused anyone! Far from it! I simply mean that he sincerely apologized for any hurt he may have caused when he was a "Mukhia Singh Sahab" ashram director in Yogi Bhajan's authoritarian organization. Numerous 3HO "MSS" bigwigs have left 3HO, but AFAIK, Antion and dear Elandra are the only ones from the inner circle who apologized to the rest of us. That took great courage and humility.)

Just look at what is happening!

VOX Media sacks top executive for sexual misconduct

Lockhart Steele, who served as editorial director at the company, was removed from his post effective immediately. In a message that was distributed to employees via Vox's internal Slack network, the company said that Steele had admitted to "engaging in conduct that is inconsistent with our core values and will not be tolerated at Vox Media."

and...

Amazon Studios Exec Roy Price Resigns Following Harassment Allegations

Amazon Studios confirms that it has accepted the resignation of top executive Roy Price after he was suspended following allegations of sexual harassment.

and...

Peter Thiel-Backed Legal Startup Offers $100,000 To Women With Weinstein Claims

The company is extending the financial assistance any woman with what it deems a “valid sexual harassment claim” against the disgraced mogul, who has faced waves of allegations of sexual harassment and abuse spanning three decades. The latest Thiel-Weinstein news comes on the heels of Charles Harder’s exit as Harvey Weinstein’s attorney. Harder had represented Thiel in the milestone Hulk Hogan legal victory over Gawker.

Maybe we should ask Peter Thiel's organization to provide legal assistance to victims of Yogi Bhajan and his merry band of pedophiles.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:15 pm 

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 5:18 am
Posts: 287
Now director James Toback is accused of sexual misconduct by more than 30 women.

Director James Gunn wrote of what sexual predators do to individuals and society:
Quote:
It's not just a Hollywood problem, Gunn said, but a global one. "Sexual predation is rife in Hollywood,"he wrote. "But it's also rife EVERYWHERE."

He added, "And they [sexual predators] are EVERYWHERE. And they are killing us. When someone is coerced sexually it not only affects that person, but the lives of those around that person, like rows of dominoes falling in every direction. It demolishes trust and comfort in all of society. And evil men are doing this everywhere, every day, in every occupation, and every type of household, all over the world."

Gunn concluded by condemning those he described as "evil men," while expressing hope for a better future. "F—. THEM. ALL," he wrote. "I am hoping with recent truths coming to light, that their reign is coming to an end, in Hollywood, and everywhere. I promise to do everything I personally can to stop it, and I applaud and have deep love for every human being who breaks the silence."

MSS Guru Amrit Kaur Khalsa, Chancellor and former NM State Assistant Attorney General MSS Guru Terath Singh Khalsa, MSS Guru Terath Kaur Khalsa, Guru Roop Kaur Khalsa of Phoenix... I'm begging you: DO THE RIGHT THING!

EVERYONE in the Phoenix ashram who circled the wagons to protect their resident pedophile, Narayan Singh, so as to protect Yogi Bhajan's pristine public image...

EVERYONE who knows about the pedophilia of Chancellor MSS Ram Das Singh Khalsa, whom Yogi Bhajan shielded from the Law...

EVERYONE who knows but refuses to speak the TRUTH about Yogi Bhajan committing rape and sexual abuse, from poor Kate Felt on down... I'm talking to you!

YOUR SILENCE IS DEAFENING!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:10 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:11 pm
Posts: 652
The Unforgiving Minute


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:36 pm 

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 5:18 am
Posts: 287
KamallaKaur wrote:

The author makes some excellent points.

Beyond this, I'm waiting for the cultural realization that the "poisonous patriarchy" as it is sometimes called is also perpetuated by women, not just men. There were lots and lots of women who knew what Harvey Weinstein was doing all those years, and they kept quiet about it. Not just his victims who were afraid to speak up, but women who chose to keep silent. Women like Rosie O'Donnell and Meryl Streep. And the insider women who laughed at Seth MacFarlane's "joke" back in 2013:
Seth MacFarlane Tells The Truth About Harvey Weinstein in 2013

In the political arena are women like Hillary Clinton, who threatened Bill Clinton's victims when they tried to come forward with accusations of rape. Those women have gone through hell, had their reputations torn to shreds by a public unwilling to believe the truth about Bill Clinton, a public that still holds Hillary up as an icon of feminism.

In 3HO you have women like Bibiji, MSS Guru Terath Kaur Khalsa and Guru Roop Kaur Khalsa, all of whom covered up for pedophile Narayan Singh's crimes against children in the Phoenix ashram and Children's Camp. Men have covered it up too, but those women are equally complicit. There are the women who ran the India School boarding program, who covered up horrific sexual abuse of children at that torture chamber of a school. I'm talking about little 5-year-old boys being anally raped and coming back home scarred for life, for god's sake! When the parents of these children tried to tell the rest of us what was going on, they were slandered and villified by Yogi Bhajan and everyone on down, and ultimately ostracized from the cult.

To this day, none of those women will speak the truth. Guru Terath Kaur had a psychotherapist license that REQUIRED her to report child abuse to the authorities, but she kept her mouth shut in order to not make Yogi Bhajan look bad. That is all those people care about: Impression Management. This is why I view our society in a Co-Dependency paradigm.

If I'm wrong about any of these women, all I need to see is their public statements telling of the child abuse and naming the perpetrators. I'll be the first to apologize publically for any mis-statements I may have made about their character and actions.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:54 am 

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First point, seems to me , is to understand that most rapists are men. Since we know that Yogi Bhajan beat Bibiji up in front of their cfhildren first thing they arrived in the USA, and that he bragged about it later with her in the audience, we all understand that she and the harem were all under threat.

But Bibiji clearly was not as brave as Premka and Kate, and she got worse and worse as the years went by, including ACTIVELY covering up child abuse.

But it is still Yogi Bhajan who was the rapist. A violent man rapist, not a violent woman rapist - right?

The point of the the article is to hang for a spell, as we share with the world about Weinstein and Yogi Bhajan, and the other rapists/child molesters still hiding out in the organization (or dead) - and they are all MEN. The article is about staying focused on THAT for just a minute - right?

But I totally agree that women cover for rapists almost as much as men (under threat and not). But then the women who DO complain mostly get ignored and shunned (at best!!!!!).

We at WWoYB have NOT ignored Kate and Premka, but folks still IN Sikh Dharma/3HO knew and ignored knowing - yes both men and women equality.

Still, THIS WEEK, violent men are the rapists being busted. Not women. Women have much higher ethical statistics than men across all categories. Maybe if we were given the opportunities of men to be abusers we would be as bad or worse? The experiment has never been tried much yet, of course.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:42 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:11 pm
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Here is Yogi Bhajan talking about why he and Bibiji didn't get divorced. He is speaking in a public lecture in Los Angeles in 1989. Many in the audience KNEW and said nothing, and many didn't even GET what he was saying (not consciously at least!!!!):|

My idea is to make you happy
Los Angeles March 1989
http://fateh.sikhnet.com/sikhnet/articl ... ght=0,salt

My wife never sees me. I never see her. I wonder sometimes why don't we divorce? We get mad at each other. We fight like you and me. I yell and scream to tell my children I am the father. The buck stops here. All that drama I do and I do it very intentionally to let them know that I am a very alive human being father. Otherwise they think I am a yogi, I am supreme, I live in the bliss, forget about it. I am just a statue. And once in a while I shake my statue and just let them know I am alive and well and I am just like as they are.

You do not know the tragedy in my family. My family came and my children came from school from India. They brought two kilos of common salt. Two kilos. Four pounds. They thought in America, our parents have become holy and they don't eat salt. So they brought their own salt. I opened the bag, I saw the salt, I told my wife, she said, "what?".

It is a mistake, they brought salt. I said, "Don't be stupid. We have lost our children. They are gone."

She said, "No they are not gone. What are you talking about."

I said, "Now before I tell you what I am going to do you just do it."

She said, "What is it?"

I said, "They are all coming in and I am going to jump on you and start beating you. You start beating me back. Don't worry and start yelling as high as you can."

She said, "I can't do it."

I said, "Do it now."

And I pulled her, pulled her from the sofa, threw her on the carpet. I was just over her, she was over me. And she was yelling. She thought this is unreal. And she has a certain feeling sometimes when I tell her it has got to be done, she does it good.

And then children came and said, "No, no, no, no! Papa, mamma, papa! mamma, mamma, papa!"
And we were not doing anything anyway and we just became all right. We said, "Fine, fine, fine. Thank you very much. How are you?"

That time they felt we are not that holy that we can't fight and there is no need of bringing salt from India to America. We did a practical thing to let them feel we are exactly the same as we were. Because in army I learned only one word is very effective: "As you were".

Left and right and up, down, all that goes. Then there comes, "as you were".

Then everything becomes to normal. Nothing moves. And that is one thing which I learned in command and receiving a command.


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